Francesca: I remembered why I love taking photographs. That’s one of the reasons I wanted to revisit this chat and speak to you again, because when we first spoke in the beginning of the year I didn't know if I loved it at that moment, which is okay. This year I’ve been learning to approach photography differently. When I was younger, it all felt very overwhelming but photography also encompassed my life in the best way possible. 

Francesca: I was speaking about this with a friend the other day: How to make work as an adult. I'm a grown-up now. [laughing] I feel the way I make pictures now is much more measured than it used to be; it has to be. I used to document my life, but my life is very different now compared to the type of imagery I want to create so I have to plan it. I have 46,000 pictures on my iPhone and it's mostly pictures of my dog and not much else. 

Francesca: I didn't want photography to be this big social constraint, so when I'm hanging out with my friends, if I want to take their pictures then I will, but I also like to just be. So this year I figured out how to be, which helped me understand what I like about taking pictures, who I like taking pictures of and why.

Francesca: I learned a lot of this by starting to do more treatments for clients and magazines; I never knew how to conceptualize my work or why it could be relevant; how to plan a seemingly spontaneous moment and create that narrative. A lot of my pictures are of my friends doing not much at all, but actually, the person in the image is what's interesting. That’s your story. 

Mo: When we first talked, what idea of making pictures did you have versus now?

Francesca: I was feeling so reluctant to take pictures and I think I had been feeling that for a while.

Mo: What were you reluctant about?

Francesca: Well, a big part of my work is exploring the relationship between myself and who I am photographing. It’s about intimacy, but if I don't feel like being intimate with somebody then it can be really challenging. To create the kind of images I want to, I have to be an open person and for a long time I really struggled with that. So now I’m finding ways to be open again, or at least I’m getting there. Simply put, I was drained. Connecting with somebody in that way is so emotional—even if it’s somebody I know and love—can sometimes be too consuming.

Francesca: I get nervous before I take photos because I know how intense it can be. Photographing someone being vulnerable in whichever way often requires you to be vulnerable as well, so you create that space for them. It can emotionally drain you so you have to be aware of that. 

Francesca: When I did the California project with British Journal of Photography I was up and down the state for ten days. I photographed sixty different people, so every day I was having all of these fast, intimate, emotional experiences with people. That was so tiring. It wasn’t even the physical part of traveling—being jet-lagged and shooting all the time. Five times a day I would meet someone new and I'd spend an hour with them. I learned things about them in that hour that you wouldn’t usually learn when you first meet somebody. It’s so amazing to experience that openness and vulnerability in someone else, and allow them to express that through an image. I can be very sensitive—I’m like a sponge. It really takes a lot out of me but I also thrive off that feeling.

Mo: I understand how draining that vulnerable space can be and I’ve definitely met that limit, at least in the context of these conversations. As you said, you have to give as much as you can get. Do you feel like because you were vulnerable with other people that you were also being vulnerable with yourself?

Francesca: I don’t know if I’ve ever been fully vulnerable with myself. What would that really look like? I’m not sure I want to know. Some days I feel like I know everything about myself and some other days I'm wondering if I'm living someone else's life. [laughing]

Mo: If we rewind back ten years, what would 16-year-old Francesca be surprised about?

Francesca: Honestly, I think the most surprising thing a 16-year-old could ever feel about a 26-year-old is that you're not married with children. [both laughing]

Mo: Did you think that could happen?

Francesca: I mean, my mum had me when she was 27 and it was fairly average for that time. Obviously, it's generational and everything is different now. When you’re a child you look at someone ten years older than you and assume they have it all figured out. You look at someone who’s 26 and think they’re an adult, but maybe they still feel like a teenager too.

Mo: But would a 16-year-old be surprised that photography is not only a vocation but also a profession?

Francesca: Yes, and I think 16-year-old me would be very impressed. [both laughing] But also when I was sixteen I was very into DeviantArt and Flickr. So 16-year-old me would be surprised about the type of pictures that I take. I did a lot of Photoshop back then. I remember doing this elaborate setup in my garden with my sister when it was snowing. I put her on a chair and I edited that out so that she would be levitating above the snow. [laughing] It's funny because I feel like I'm illiterate on Photoshop now and that's where everything originated for me. I would be surprised by the simplicity of my pictures.

Francesca: My love of photography started partly online but also from copies of Vogue I would steal from my mum’s friend. I loved the work that Tim Walker was making with Shona Heath and how dramatic and conceptual the fashion sets were. That’s what I really wanted to do.

Mo: Is that when you came across Elaine Constantine's work?

Francesca: That happened way later on. I wasn’t looking at the same references that I am now. The photographers that I really take reference from are ones that I discovered much later on: Rineke Dijkstra, Corinne Day, Justine Kurland, Katy Grannan, Arno Nollen. My interests were much more fashion focussed and I had a pretty narrow viewpoint of what it meant to be a fashion photographer. A lot of my references came from seeing other young photographers’ work online, and that is still a big inspiration to me. 

Mo: What’s a burning question you have about yourself?

Francesca: I think about death a lot. A year ago I realized that it's something that will inevitably happen, which sounds crazy, but it’s never really addressed by society. I'm not at peace with it, per se, but I'm not totally panicking in the way I was back then. What does it mean to learn about your mortality to the point where you suddenly feel it and think about it every day? I can be present in a moment, and then suddenly realise that it’s not going to last forever. I suppose it’s about harnessing that fear and using it to live your life more fully, as cheesy as that sounds. 

Francesca: Right now though, I just really want to stay alive. I avoid things that seem dangerous, but I’m working on that one as you can’t live your life with that much control. Other than that, I think about the choices that I make, good or bad, and how they don't really matter because it's just one way or another—flip the coin, it doesn't matter.

Mo: How do you give yourself a space to recharge?

Francesca: I think it's been about trying to connect with the people I love without taking pictures. If you're giving all of that energy to somebody else then maybe you're not really giving that to the people you really love. I’ve been making sure I have those connections outside of taking pictures. I don't photograph too many of my friends anymore. When I was younger, I felt like it was really good to have my whole life encompassed by photography but now I like having that separation. 

Francesca: Also, when I was younger, I loved everything being visual. I loved the idea of classic teenage adventures; I thrived off making them happen so that I could take a picture of them. Sometimes I get back into documenting my life but I don't pressure myself so much which feels good. It's okay if I didn't take a picture of a sunset or my friend on the beach and it’s also okay if I took a photo on my iPhone rather than a film camera, because I look back at my photos whenever I’m on a flight and feel warm and safe. I don't always need to remember this party or moment through an image because I had a good time and that’s enough.

Mo: Have we ever talked about the most challenging thing in your practice?

Francesca: I'm not sure, but the answer to that—other than intimacy and vulnerability—would be being pleased with my work. I feel like what is challenging is that we see so many pictures all the time. Sometimes I look at my own work and I have this panic and think, “God, this is embarrassing. I'm in a meeting right now! Do they know that a child took this picture?” [both laughing] Other times I look at my work and I'm like, “Oh, that's nice. I'm proud of myself.” I feel like it's about being able to be grounded and balanced. You should really like the work that you make because that's what it's all about.

Mo: That's when you can see the separation of where you are now and where you were before.

Francesca: Exactly, then you can push yourself in the direction you want to go in.

Mo: If I looked at work I made five years ago and I like it more than my recent work then I’d start to question myself.

Francesca: You're wondering if you went in the right direction and made the right choices. I think what's also difficult is separating my brain from what is interesting to other people. We're all out there making work for ourselves... Kind of. [both laughing] But how do you separate your memory from what makes an interesting picture to other people? It’s about seeing an image for an image rather than looking at that moment that meant so much. Say you have an image of the first person you ever loved, you might feel nostalgic when you see that image, but what does that mean in a wider context? 

Mo: It's beautiful when you can bridge those two, right? There's a fairly intimate image in my portfolio of a partner I recently showed during a meeting. It was welcomed, which made me think about how powerful it is to have a reciprocating vibration between the audience and artist in a particular body of work.

Francesca: If someone else can find your memory interesting and sensitive to them then that makes that a really beautiful image. 

Mo: If a photographer is creating that type of imagery where it’s made to connect with a particular audience, then I wonder if they ask what agency they have over their own life. Have you found yourself in that place where you realize that the moment isn't only for you anymore?

Francesca: Totally. I think that's why I separated everything in a way. I don't really share or take many personal photos of friends anymore. That was a really big thing. Taking pictures can feel so selfish to me. It's like, okay, there's this really beautiful moment and I want to take it for myself to share with other people that might like it and will make me feel good. Whereas, actually, the moment belongs to everybody that was there. It’s not only yours for the taking. 

Francesca: I think photography can be a selfish medium, so I had to develop an awareness of that, but perhaps I became too acutely aware, to my detriment. I'm even shy to take pictures of friends on my iPhone sometimes because it can feel intrusive and it’s not always my right to do that. There are so many pictures I haven't taken because I want to let this moment play out. 

Mo: I want to round this out by asking what the purpose of your work is.

Francesca: Sometimes I still don't know what my purpose is and I think it changes a lot; it feels like a state of flux when you're growing up and how your work grows up with you. A lot of my work is about younger people and how they feel. So ten, twenty years down the line, what will my work be about and what will inform that?